No Homework! Read More Here

[administrator]

Students


Students are not allowed to post academic questions which are intended to solve their homework or test problems on Engineers Edge forums. This is considered plagiarism by most academic institutions and Engineers Edge Management. Posts that are of academic homework or test nature may be removed from Engineers Edge and the posting member could lose their access privileges.

No exceptions.

For more information on Engineers Edge forum rules see:

Rules and Posting Policy

[fSAE-Hybrid]

I have to say, it seems as though this rule within your forum has been abused or at the very least has been completely taken out of context. What is technically considered plagiarism would be those questions from their books or tests (not that many would be able to actually ask a test problem online during an exam). However, it seems as though your community has taken this to a completely different level to include any "work" in connection with a school, whether that be for a school project or otherwise. From a philanthropic perspective, this is definitely not the way of a collaborative engineering society. There are several national middle-school, high-school, and even collegiate-level engineering competitions where there is a wealth of knowledge that could be shared in order to assist such engineering students grasp a concept and apply it rather than turn them away because of "forum rules and etiquette". There is something to be learned by the engineer as well through teaching, mentoring, and guiding. In my opinion, only a forum that is ill-equipped to handle such questions would turn-down students seeking assistance for such projects. While this is your forum and you can obviously set the rules any way you want....there are hundreds of other forums out there where prospective engineers are gaining familiarity, loyalty, and making connections within because such strict limitations don't exist.

[fSAE-Hybrid]

Furthermore, if you want to get really technical about it...to the same regard, you should tell everyone they can't share proprietary company information. That isn't just plagarism, it's illegal, and a violation of company contract. So no asking for assistance with engineering issues regarding ones company either. Whether you state the name of the company, part-number, ect...

[jboggs]

Hybrid, As a relatively new member you might not be familiar with how the rule has been used in practice. I think the majority of the members do not see the homework policy as an obstacle to sharing information on engineering concepts, principles, or tools. We see it as a important requirement that prevents this forum from being used in such a way as to deprive the students of the valuable exercise of solving problems on their own.

I have seen numerous examples of students asking for help in understanding a concept or an approach to analyzing a problem. Usually they get the guidance they request. They then use that guidance to continue on down the road and solve the problem themselves, thus gaining the educational benefit of doing so. But when a student asks for us to solve his problem for him, which they often do, he comes up empty.

In my opinion the issue of potential plagiarism is a side issue, a legally important one but not the main one.

[Kelly_Bramble]

you should tell everyone they can't share proprietary company information.


Engineers Edge does provide guidance on this within the "Rules and Posting Policy" that you agreed to when you registered.

Quick link --> Rules and Posting Policy


it seems as though this rule within your forum has been abused or at the very least has been completely taken out of context.


Where?

Universities, colleges and other educational institutions normally have recommended help services available. These services are what the student should use and if the educational organization does not offer these services… one should consider changing schools.

Engineers Edge mission statement is:

"the preferred online destination for designers, engineers and manufacturing professionals, where all can quickly find a variety of information to aid in the solution of typical and complex technical problems."

Engineers Edge is the next level for technical professionals. What one will find here is what one needs to create an end-item product. This may seem the same as school work – however usually it is not. A technical education is important but the education one receives is significantly different than what one encounters in industry or practice.

Students posting questions or seeking solutions to homework are a different category of visitor. Let's examine:

• At school one learns, in industry or work you apply.
• College cannot teach you everything you need to know for the real world and there are more than a few lessons a job will teach you.
• 99% of the time students are NOT building, manufacturing, inspecting or otherwise creating an end item product.
• Student questions go like this: Hey, I need to solve this problem by tomorrow "a photo copy of HM question”.
• Homework and other academic type’s questions usually involve extensive math calisthenics. Industry folks solving real world problems normally use tools, software and other simplified methods to solve complex math problems. In many cases the students math involves some weird algebraic manipulation (log e) or equivalent that only the professor seems to think is important. – Pet peeve of mine.
• What a student will post in the forums is typically a basic physics question where an industry engineer or designer is looking for a higher level real-world solution or reference.
• Most new engineers feel “lost” during their first few years working. They have been taught a great deal in school however few organizations truly turn them loose as they have much to learn about the end item products and organizational processes.
• Students tend to come, ask a question, take and not contribute. For a forum to be of value it needs contributors as well as question posters.

There are many great resources available for students. These resources are designed for the student as opposed to industry practitioners.

[jboggs]

Well said Kelly!

[webastraltraing]

well said

[webastraltraing]

Well Said

[Cake of Doom]

Kelly Bramble: Demonstrating how to hit internet nails squarely on the head since...

There is also quite a few posts from non technical folks ie, Trades, hobbyists, first time DIYers etc. As long as they have made an effort to solve their own problems, I will gladly point them in the right direction; same with students. It's the latter group, unfortunately, that are more of the "do all my work for me" kind of posters.

Education is an expensive thing but somehow, a 9.99 /month broadband connection seems to trump all of the resources their places of learning have to offer. Either student resources have gone downhill since my graduation or they are too lazy to look for them selves. I'm sure I know which one it is.

[Kelly_Bramble]

I agree.. Some folks in our society seem to want somebody else to do all the hard work including getting them a better job.

Kelly Bramble: Demonstrating how to hit internet nails squarely on the head since...

There is also quite a few posts from non technical folks ie, Trades, hobbyists, first time DIYers etc. As long as they have made an effort to solve their own problems, I will gladly point them in the right direction; same with students. It's the latter group, unfortunately, that are more of the "do all my work for me" kind of posters.

Education is an expensive thing but somehow, a 9.99 /month broadband connection seems to trump all of the resources their places of learning have to offer. Either student resources have gone downhill since my graduation or they are too lazy to look for them selves. I'm sure I know which one it is.

[petronextinternational]

We see it as a important requirement that prevents this forum from being used in such a way as to deprive the students of the valuable exercise of solving problems on their own.