Hi. I just stumbled on to this forum after googling for some information.
I have a wood beam in the middle of my kitchen that is supporting six 2"x10" floor joists that are nailed together to make one long run along the house.
Is there any way i can remove this beam ( about 8 feet in length) without compromising the structural integrity of the house? The joists seem to overlap a little over 1 foot on each side. What would I need to do to the joists to eliminate the need of this beam?
I plan on calling someone in to have a look before I touch anything but just wanted an idea of what options are out there for me.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Hi, welcome to the forum and "Nope," there is no way you can remove that beam.
The joists overlap at the beam as the beam is supporting the ends of BOTH joists. In fact, the shims under some joists should indicate that it is a load bearing beam. Also it looks like you need some shims under all of the joists.
Save your money on "calling someone in," the beam stays.
Thank you for the welcome, as well as the quick reply.
I had a hunch that it had to stay. I'm not sure which shims you're referring
to though. I don't see any shims. Could you elaborate please?
Also, and excuse my ignorance on structure in advance, but is there any way to lift the beam above the ceiling and tie the joist ends so when I drywall it it can be hidden?
Is that even feasible?
And thanks again for your help.
I hate to keep being the bearer of bad tidings but the beam has to stay one way or the other.
Sorry about the "shims" on closer inspection (circled) it is just the ends of the other joists. It was early and only into my first cup of coffee.
You could put the beam on top and then use metal straps down and under each joist but that would be some major work. You would need to do that before removing the bottom beam though. Also by the pipes, it looks like that is the floor to another level above. If that is the case then a beam over the top is almost certainly not possible.
Why do you want to remove the beam? If it is head-room, you could gain a few inches with a manufactured beam (may be several on 12" centers) or a steel I-beam. Lotta cost involved though, but you would still need a beam of some sort there.
I see a man (family) learning to love that beam!
Yes, there is a second level above the ceiling and you're right, my plumbing and duct work are in the way as well. It's just that the beam sits in the middle of my kitchen and comes down so low from the ceiling (13"). So would it be structurally sound if I moved the beam up under the floor of the 2nd level and used metal straps? That is if I can figure out a way to reroute my plumbing and duct work.
I'mk not sure how much it would cost, but I would love the end result of a hidden beam.
Moving it to the top would all have to depend on how the current beam is supported and what space is available above it. If there was a full wall above it for the entire length of that beam then it may be doable, but if there is a doorway, you would have a 13" sill to jump over.
Pretty much anything is possible but tightly linked to how much money you want to throw at it.
You could replace the wooden beam with a steel beam and it may give you an extra 6" of head room, but you would need a Structural Engineer to look at what is possible.
I would VERY strongly advise you against acting on ANY structural advice given via the Internet, mine included.
As I said, learn to love the beam or get a qualified structural guy in.
I think I'm getting confused or I might not be explaining correctly what I'd like to do.
If I can't remove the beam, what I'm asking is if it's possible to raise the beam (13") so it's perpendicular and level with the joists, then tie the joists in to the beam, so it's all tucked in to the cavity in between the 2 floors, then drywall to cover it all?
I hope I'm explaining it right and thanks for your help.
It sounds like your suggesting placing the beam on the floor above? Or maybe that is what it seemed like I was asking to do?
I will call an engineer to look but just want some feedback/options/ suggestions is all.
Thanks again
Plumbing and HVAC will still be in the way.
You are not thinking of drilling a couple of 6'' holes through the side of the raised beam, are you?
Last edited by dalecyr; 12-07-2011 at 05:01 PM.
No, I'm not drilling through the beam, but I believe I have a way to re-route them if the beam elevation is feasible.
I may be thick, but I can't imagine how you could "raise" the beam and still have it as a solid beam. The only way I can see of raising the beam is to sit it on top of the joists with straps down for each joist and that puts it on top of the floor above.
Can you make a sketch of how you think the beam could be raised. If you dont have a scanner then take a digital pic and post that here. I think your quickest way is to get an Engineer in as there may be other limitations to how the end of the beam can be supported. That too is critical to success and/or what is possible.
So, you intend to cut each of the existing joist a little shorter, raise the beam, and then use joist hangers or some such to attach them to the side of the elevated beam.
right?
This is what I was thinking and please excuse my lack of structure but I think this might work if it's safe.Originally Posted by dalecyr
It's an 8' beam sitting on 2 vertical 2x6's
on the right side and a steel sleeve like
Hanger on the left. I'll take better pics and post when I get home.
I'd like to re-iterate that I plan on getting an engineer in and
give me their input and would never try to tackle this without going through the safest channels.
I'm just throwing ideas out there. I really do appreciate all your input.
OK, so here are a couple more pictures of the beam. The first one is the right side of the beam which is being supported by the 2x6's....
photo 1.jpg
And here is the left side of the beam. These are close up so you can see the metal hanger type sleeve I was talking about....
I'm not sure what the beam is sitting on here, as I haven't tore in to the wall yet
photo 2.jpg
Hopefully this sheds some light on what I'm trying to accomplish
Last edited by jdavidson; 12-08-2011 at 12:36 AM.
So I've been googling images and came across this. This is exactly what I'd like to do.
Forgive my primitive drawing skills, but I think you get where I'm headed (2x6's) on either side for support.
Any thoughts?
Edit......so according to google the terminology used is "flush beam"
Girders_(Beams)2.JPG
Last edited by jdavidson; 12-08-2011 at 01:29 AM.
A disclaimer - I design machines and steel structures, not houses. But I can tell you this, you are talking about a MAJOR structural change to the integrity of the structure of your humble abode. IF you can confirm that it will meet your local building codes, and IF you can get a local licensed sturctural engineer to design it for you, then you will have a significant and risky construction project on your hands. I would strongly suggest that you do not proceed any further until you find a licensed engineer who is familiar with the codes in your area. Any good local contractor should be able to help you find one.
You say the beam is running down the middle of the kitchen... Sounds like a good place for some track lighting? Maybe park an island sink and stove top arrangement underneath the beam so it looks intentional. Attach some overhead cupboards to it and Voila!! Now it's no longer an ugly beam hanging down in the room... It's a thing to hang pots and pans and cupboards off of?
Just thinking maybe you could work with it?
Thank you for your input and as stated previously, I have not and do not plan to proceed until qualified engineers can see what I want to do.
Could you elaborate a little on how and why you feel this is a major structural change to the integrity and structure of my house?
I appreciate your advice, and maybe I don't see it as a major change. The load would still be carried by the beam, would it not?
Hi, thank you for your suggestions. My plan was to install pot lights in "both rooms" I call it "both rooms" because that's the perception the beam gives. Unfortunately, the kitchen is too narrow for overhead cupboards, it would make the kitchen smaller than it already is.
I do like the suggestions though thanks !!!!
Jumping in here, yes, the load would be taken by the beam, but during the conversion the entire structure above has to be supported while the old beam is removed and the new "thing" is put in it's place.
That is no mean feat on a completed structure. You can expect drywall cracking in the upstairs rooms as the load is taken by maybe 15 jacks not evenly lifting the structure to first remove the old beam.
The upstairs load which includes furniture, load bearing walls supporting the roof and any snow on it is not going to be an easy thing to lift and hold while the new "thing" is put into place. If there are bathrooms up there then you can expect tile and/or grout cracks, maybe even leaks in shower trays etc. It is NOT a simple pull the beam out and put another on in it's place like replacing a wheel on the car.
As I said earlier, pretty much anything is possible if you throw enough money at it, and only you an decide how much you dislike the current beam.
My advice? Learn to love the beam.
I can learn to accept the beam, but love it I will not.
I hear what everyone is saying but the beam is only 8' long.
How in the world can I fit 15 jack posts over a span of 8'?
We're talking about 6 floor joists, maybe I'm dense but this is what I envision in my head;
And please, this is just a thought.....I don't plan to do ANYTHING without consulting an engineer
2 temporary 2x6 walls parallel to the beam on either side of the beam.
Cut joists the exact depth of the beam.
Remove the beam and replace the vertical 2x6's with taller ones to elevate it 12" up in the joist area.
Install same beam, affix joists to beam
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