Engineering Management, Manufacturing
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: Engineering Management, Manufacturing
: Engineering Management, Manufacturing -- IlyaSmolyansky	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Marky ® 11/24/2009, 07:40:02 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Hi and welcome to the forum. We've had this debate here before. I've posted that there is a pretty good chance that you go to the bottom of the pile. But make yourself stand out...I would focus on Lean Manufacturing and Project Management. Look around some of the job hiring sites and see what companies are looking for. Modified by Marky at Tue, Nov 24, 2009, 08:11:19

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: : Engineering Management, Manufacturing
: : Engineering Management, Manufacturing -- Marky	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 11/24/2009, 08:35:06 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I think an education in today's world is almost a must if one wants to advance within a corporate environment. So, a degree will help your career - eventually. What is often hard to appreciate is that MOST (not all) educational organizations are for profit. With that said they have and will oversell the value and payback of the education and degree you are to earn. As an engineering trainer and consultant I regularly come across young engineering professionals whom are dismayed that they are not making the "big bucks" and that they are not promoting or getting the opportunity and responsibilities of more experienced engineers. To these folks I always point out that they are working in their chosen profession. Also, being Straight out of school with a degree in hand does not guarantee you a high paying opportunity and advancement; however, doors of opportunity will open easier with hard work and perseverance than that of a non-degreed person. I do know folks in industry with a non-engineering management degree's managing engineers. Again, expecting instant opportunity straight out of school is not realistic, however you are likely to start in an administrative or other management supporting role working your way towards a project (program) manager. Yes, education is a business and nothing in the business world is guaranteed.

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: : : Engineering Management, Manufacturing
: : : Engineering Management, Manufacturing -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: jboggs ® 11/24/2009, 09:01:45 Author Profile eMail author Edit

One thing you will learn the hard way several times in your career is this simple fact - trust your gut! If your gut tells you there is a problem, there is a problem. Ask these counselors one simple question - can they give you the names and phone numbers of several recent graduates who did find engineering management work right out of school? I'll bet they cannot. But if they can, get in touch with every single one and get their version of the story. I've been an engineer (for several companies) and I've been a manager (for several companies). Only that experience can tell you which one will make you happy. As an engineer, I absolutely would not trust a manager who had no experience. Even if the company was misguided enough to put someone in that position, it is a recipe for failure and frustration. One reason is that VERY few people outside the daily world of engineering have the first clue what it takes to create a design, or solve a problem, etc. Many of them say the same thing, in fact it has become a joke in our office. Any time you hear the phrase "All you gotta do is . . ." be very afraid. Here is someone that has ZERO understanding, and most often they are in management!

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Posted by: wwdaugherty ® 11/25/2009, 08:42:57 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Another thing to keep in mind is the volatile nature of the business cycle (especially in the contract world). You always need to be prepared to land on your feet. Keep your skills and cv up to date at all times..!! Once you have been through layoff or work ending a few times you understand it is not personal, it's just business, but it still stings. Always bank a portion of your earnings when times are good..!!

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Posted by: IlyaSmolyansky ® 11/25/2009, 16:49:07 Author Profile eMail author Edit

All makes sense, except for one thing. I've been looking on Monster.com for job listings, and every one of them require at least 5 years of job experience, most require it in the selected field of the job listing. I understand that does not mean that I cannot apply for the position, but it does mean that I'm on the absolute bottom of the list. Does anybody know what exactly I will be able to realistically apply for and get an offer right out of college? It's not like my degree is in Manufacturing Engineering, so i cannot be an engineer simply because I would have a bit less engineering knowledge than manufacturing engineers. But, for every management position, it's a requirement to have lots of prior management and engineering experience. Where do I stand with my Engineering Management degree out of college? I'm not expecting a 80k/yr job after college, i'm just trying to find out what i CAN expect. Another thing, is the engineering management degree considered a bs degree in the engineering world for people who couldn't get a real engineering degree?

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Posted by: jboggs ® 11/28/2009, 16:43:04 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Not meaning to be offensive, but in a word - yes.

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Posted by: IlyaSmolyansky ® 11/29/2009, 02:25:44 Author Profile eMail author Edit

That's certainly not very warming. Should I even dump all this money into a bs degree? I'd lose a year or two if i change to mechanical or manufacturing, but if the management degree is bs, then it should be my only choice. Thoughts?

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Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 11/29/2009, 09:06:11 Author Profile eMail author Edit

"Should I even dump all this money into a bs degree?" This is exactly what I have told my adult children and others. Beg, borrow, starve, or do whatever it takes to get a degree. Doors will open easier and wider with any college degree. An engineering degree does not guarantee more or faster opportunity either, however doors will OPEN with work! Smart companies are not going to turn over their financial future and success in anybody fresh out of college with any degree. You will have to pay your dues and learn the ropes of the company, given opportunities and responsibilities for a duration. This is called working your way up. Keep in mind that nobody in school, on this forum, in you life can tell you where your career is going, who you will work for, money, etc.. All you can do is aim in the direction you want to go, work hard, take opportunities as they are offered and see what happens.

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: : : : : : : : : Engineering Management, Manufacturing -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: jboggs ® 12/01/2009, 09:23:48 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I refer you to my post in which I recommended that you ask your advisors for the names and phone numbers of recent graduates in your situation so that you cand find out from them exactly what they have encountered in the real world. If they give you excuses instead of phone numbers, that should tell you all you need to know.

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Posted by: jboggs ® 12/01/2009, 09:20:09 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Kelly, I think you might have misinterpreted his question. Since he is already in a degree program, I think his meaning for "bs" in this context isn't "Bachelor of Science" but a more "common" term I'm sure you can infer. I see his question as "which degree is better", not "degree or no degree".

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Posted by: lumpidydumpy ® 12/04/2009, 10:22:18 Author Profile eMail author Edit

It seems as though you will also have a good understanding of Manufacturing concepts. With this knowledge, a lot of companies are looking for people with understanding of LEAN concepts and Inventory controls. In the economy we are in, it is a big thing if you can control your costs without changing too much....see if there are electives that can boost your IE understanding or get more exposure to some of these concepts. As a graduate in Engineering Management, you arent going to come out of the gates as an "ENGINEERING MANAGER" I have seen that this usually takes quite a bit of experience or a higher level of degree. this doesnt mean you cant "Manage" you may be able to come out into the field and be a project coordinator. this means you have to understand all sorts of aspects of the project. Right now as a Mechanical Engineer, I might be able to handle the schedule, design, accounting and marketing of the products I design..........It would take me 5 years to complete a simple widget, but i could do it. If all I had to do was worry about the design and maybe how it would be manufactured, and a Project "Manager" could take care of scheduling, planning, accounting, Voice of Customer input, .....on and on, we could knock that same widget out in 1 year. Perhaps I am still optimistic for you in your current situation beacause i was there 3 years ago, but I still think you should continue. As far as the degree being "BS", a degree is at least a step up. If it is an ABET acreditted program, someone that means something feels you ARE an engineer. I would suggest that you also try to get some drawing experience and for the Love of God TAKE THE EIT or FE exam! All of this will show you as a well rounded engineer.

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Posted by: RWOLFEJR ® 12/09/2009, 12:04:56 Author Profile eMail author Edit

All of the comments offered up on your situation are good sound advice. Another thought that pops to mind is this... You could consider looking around for a company that offers assistance on furthering your education as a perk. In doing this you can gain valuable experience while working and save a few bucks on your schooling. Good money can be made as a laborer or running machinery etc. Having a better understanding of the capabilities of the equipment and the processes involved to build the product. from a working perspective. is a huge advantage when you do finish up and get that degree. That isn't to say that you must have shop floor experience. I just personally feel it is a big plus. I believe some labor time builds character in a way that it only can. As much as the world of academia would like to try to simulate the real world to prepare you. it will always fall short because it's just make believe. If you screw up a problem or miss the mark somewhat during a classroom simulation you get a poor test score but nobody loses real cash or real limbs. Experience is a form of education that can't be bought or taught. That experience doesn't have to be in the exact field you're looking at. Any job out there will teach you something you can't learn in school. A friendly kick with good intentions. Quit worrying about how much you're going to make when you're working and get busy working on school or whatever. The cream always rises to the top and the people on top are busy getting things done. and are compensated accordingly. Good luck on the cabbage. Hope you can manage to do a couple more years of school.

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