Which is better... Expirence or Education?
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Posted by: Guttdogg ® 08/04/2006, 16:34:59 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Seriously, which is better... more expirence, or more education? Modified by Administrator at Sat, Sep 09, 2006, 09:19:01

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Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: toyotaboy ® 08/17/2006, 06:33:47 Author Profile eMail author Edit

you need some education, but experience helps a lot! really education is a poor measuring device for knowlege, and as such is usually the criteria of how much you'll get paid. I too only have a 2 year degree in ME (A.A.S.).. I much prefer that I got an applied science degree because it was much more hands on with real-world education. I make nearly $50k right now which is pretty darn good for not having a bacheoler's. One thing that helps is getting a broad knowledge by changing jobs every few years, experience different envoirnments and products.. plus everytime you jump ship, usually they will give you more than your making now.

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Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- toyotaboy	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: cengpeng58 ® 08/22/2006, 11:45:17 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I'm a new Member of the Engineer EDGE and I'm a PE (UK),living in Venice,Italy. I' ll soon post my view about this all important topic ! Regards to you all ! Luciano Bacco , PE (UK), MIET Modified by cengpeng58 at Tue, Aug 22, 2006, 11:47:12

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Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- cengpeng58	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: cengpeng58 ® 08/28/2006, 12:55:31 Author Profile eMail author Edit

My view is as follows : Theory + Practice = Professional Proficiency This is an axiomatic fact,that is, this " formula " applies in all walks of life ! Regards Luciano

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- cengpeng58	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: randykimball ® 08/28/2006, 23:12:20 Author Profile eMail author Edit

It is always seems those who do not have talent do not believe in talent. To those I say, explain the seemingly severely retarted that can play a musical instrument with very little exposure to it, but then play a musical piece they have only heard once, and play it well. Can you do that? 'and if the answer is "I can be taught" you've missed the entire concept. Ability to quickly grasp new concepts is a talent, as well. The worst suggestion of your lifetime may be the catalyst to the grandest idea of the century, never let suggestions go unsaid nor fail to listen to them.

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Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: randykimball ® 08/05/2006, 10:17:33 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I think the important thing to remember is that education is a tool, experience in using those tools is important, plus aptitude and talent in the correct concepts are also required to be proficent. Like any other tool, education comes in different qualities and different assortments. You can have a tool chest full of tools but if you don't understand how to apply those tools to accomplish projects you aren't all that much better off. Tools come in vast assortments, if you are expertise at using tools well then owning special tools designed to do tricky and complex projects becomes a more productive endeavor. Experiece improves the performance of using tools. Just going out and buying a tool chest full of the best tools even with every assortment and special tool known to man does not mean you will be able to make a good living using them. You could get hired quickly because having all those tools indicates that you may be a fine tradesman, but sooner or later you will have to prove your ability to complete a task at the skill level that a tool chest of the best tools indicates you should be able to accomplish. As your experience level improves your skill and performance with your tools will improve. A tradesman with many years of experience will out perform a tradesman with very few years experience, even if the tradesman with many years experience has only a few well choosen tools. ... this is true unless the next paragraph comes into play. Talent is the ability to relate the tools to your projects. If you have every tool you could possibly need and do not have the correct aptitude and talent you will never be trully effecient with those tools. Aptitude and talent can not be taught. Aptitude and talent will decide how quickly you are able to acquire expertise with your tools (education). As an example I truly desire to be a great banjo player, I even built my own banjo. I took the time and had the skills to build a fine banjo from scratch, but I will never be the great banjo player I desire to be, because I just do not have the talent nor the finely tuned ear for it. However, as an additional example, I did have the talent to build a quality banjo, something most good banjo players would love to do and will never achieve, because of where our talents are. Someone with the proper aptitude and talent will quickly over take the one weak in these areas. In the long run aptitude and talent with experience and a tool chest of well chosen credits of education will win the prize. Talent is "hard wired in". We all know that some of us will never be able to sing well, or master a violin when we are 6 years old, or paint a masterpiece painting. Not everyone understands how to fix almost anything they get their hands on.... these are talents.. and one would be very wise to pick a carreer and education that is a match to one's talents. ... it is often wise to ask someone that you are sure has the talent you believe you have if they truly agree that you have that talent, someone that will NOT lie about it. See..? .... we often are fooled into believing we have talent we do not have because we want to believe we have it. We do not have the proper perspective to make that choice without the additional perspective of someone deeply imbeded into that very talent to help us sort it out. I once truely believed I could be a great banjo player, but after several years of hard work I visited a group of talented players and realized I would never be worthy to posion their music with my miserable efforts. It was important that I learn that lesson, I now play MY banjo for me... and only me. If you pick a carreer that is coupled to your talents you WILL be more successful.... bank on it. If you do not, you will find it very difficult to able to accomplish your grandest goals. Each and everyone of us most likely know some one that is a tool collector... they have collected a vast array of edcuational credits and never seem to stop going to school until they eventually end up teaching in a university. Well, we need them too, ... their talent is going to and teaching education... often they aren't so good at applying them to the real world... that's ok... they are important to the process, but it helps if they realize why they are there. -- now you have the opinion of an experienced old fart -- The worst suggestion of your lifetime may be the catalyst to the grandest idea of the century, never let suggestions go unsaid nor fail to listen to them. Modified by randykimball at Sat, Aug 05, 2006, 10:57:19

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Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: zekeman ® 08/05/2006, 09:25:50 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Both

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Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 08/04/2006, 16:54:38 Author Profile eMail author Edit

To get a job and career advancement - education To get the job done - experience To get a job, career advancement and getting the job done - education and experience

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Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: alireza59 ® 08/06/2006, 03:32:35 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I think education is better than experience becouse education guides experiance in best line.first education and then experiance completes that.

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Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- alireza59	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Guttdogg ® 08/07/2006, 08:49:44 Author Profile eMail author Edit

so basically... you're saying I should go back to school!!! just a FYI, I have a 2 year engineering degree (if there is such a thing!) acutally it's an AAS in Manufacturing Engineering Technology... basically crammed 86 credits into two years. I have worked in a 'shop' environment since i was 12 (dad owned it, so it was legal!) I'm 26 now, having worked for dad until i was 24 (long story) minus the couple years i was in the service. At my current job it seems like i'm constantly 'teaching' our engineers things... or they are constantly asking my advice/opinion. I guess it just sucks that a person that makes $20K+ a year more than me is asking ME what to do. I think i'll try and find a different job, close to a school that has a good engineering program, and go back to school Thanks to all that replied

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Tunalover ® 08/13/2006, 11:10:51 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Guttdogg- If someone told you that you have a "two year engineering degree" then you were greatly misled. I know because I was misled in such a way. I complete a semester of what was called a "Mechanical Engineering Technology" program at a community college after following the advise of my designated faculty advisor. After expressing a desire to get a four year Mechanical Engineering degree my advisor advised me to enter the MET program which I did. A year later I talked to another faculty member who advised that I was NOT in the right program. I ended up transferring to the pre-engineering program where the credits were fully transferrable to state universities. I lost something like 12 semester hours in the transfer. The calculus course I took did not transfer, for example. After starting the pre-engineer program I quickly learned the difference. The ENGINEERING curriculum was more rigorous and much more difficult that the engineering technology program. After completing the BSME I looked back and it dawned on me that EVERY I LEARNED IN ONE ENGRG COURSE I NEEDED TO KNOW IN FOLLOWING ENGRG COURSES. It was a tough program but I got through it. The academics were in an entirely different league than the MET program and I knew then why engineers are well-compensated and in high demand. So don't call your degree a two-year engineering degree. That's not what it is!

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Tunalover	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Guttdogg ® 08/14/2006, 09:01:10 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Which is exactly why I said "if there is such a thing" directly after saying my degree. I've looked into universities in the area, and at best, all but 24 of my credits will transfer. Which isn't a huge loss... considering it was an 84 credit course (over two years). Im just now trying to figure out how I can go back to school, and still be able to pay the bills. Unfortunately, no matter what, I have to move.

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 08/07/2006, 22:14:41 Author Profile eMail author Edit

An engineers training and responsibilities are very different from yours within manufacturing. We engineers are trained to design, analyze and specify requirements. Generally, mechanical engineers are tasked with the following: Conceptualization and design - Creatively come up with functional concepts, design, specify, and analyze. CAD/CAE - Model the assembly in 3D space and analyze fits and function. Structural analysis - We review the design configuration and analytically ensure the assembly is strong enough. Thermal: Ensure there is adequate heat movement within the system. Conduct the required thermal analysis to ensure all of the components are operating at proper temperatures. Vibration Analysis: We review the design configuration and analytically ensure the assembly will not vibrate apart or ensure adequate system isolation is present. Corrosion: Review assembly and environment to ensure the system will survive any galvanic challenges. Kinematics: Review and design moving parts for position, static's, and ensure desired motion is obtained for functional requirements. Many, many, many more engineering tasks. Most engineers are not trained in manufacturing technology. An engineer that consults manufacturing should be praised. I think we engineers can cause you lots of grief (tight tolerances, ECT..) by not seeking your advice. Feel free to ask us for our advice/opinion of any of our strengths. Modified by Kelly Bramble at Mon, Aug 07, 2006, 22:15:32

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Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Guttdogg ® 08/08/2006, 09:33:38 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I totally understand where you're coming from, but just because my degree's title says Manufacturing, doesnt mean I didnt have any physics, statics, kinematics, etc classes. The only thing in your list that wasn't covered in your list was thermal... (didnt have time) but most of my expirence with design, cad, and structural analysis was from the 'School of Hard Knocks' when i was growing up in dad's shop... Im not saying im smarter than engineers (please dont think i think that!) but i'm saying dont always take the opinion of the 'little guy' lightly. I dont know how many times at dad's shop that we got prints from a company (to bid or build... or both) that we wound up sending the prints back saying 'it cant be done' I still do want to go back to school and get my Engineering Degree, but I dont know which 'type' would be good for me.

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Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: microme ® microme 07/24/2007, 00:04:20 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I am a senior ME engineering sudent working a part-time internship. Before attending college I was a machinist, welder, and fabricator. The engineers find my past experiences very useful. Other students are always asking about fabrication, trying to link theory with practical. Many EGR students chose engineering because they are good at math....my practical experience is what influenced my decision to pursue an EGR degree. My boss tries to get me to recruit others with practical experience. The machinists usually never find an error in my designs since I know what can be machined and what can't. Some students lacking real-world experience in my project groups come up with some very far fetched and impractical ideas. I have to sometimes explain to them what a wrench is. Yes... I have seen PE's using tools other than a computer. Engineering education seems to have lost the emphasis on creativity. Creativity first .... analysis second. Both education and hands-on experience is best. I Came from the same boat you're on now ...

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Re: Re: Which is better... Expirence or Education? -- Guttdogg	Post Reply	Top of thread	Forum

Posted by: Jop ® 09/14/2006, 14:23:30 Author Profile eMail author Edit

The posting by randykimball (8/05/06) is by far the best answer I have seen on this subject.

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